Translating Experience to Resume

Crafting a resume that truly reflects your skills and achievements can feel daunting, especially when writer’s block strikes.

But don’t worry! In this post, we’ll explore two simple yet powerful strategies to help you break through the mental roadblocks and turn your day-to-day tasks and accomplishments into polished, professional resume language.

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Maybe the most common question I've received over the last 15 years of career coaching is, how do I translate my experience onto my resume? Two strategies for you. One, a lot of times we get in our own heads and we get writer's block when going to write a resume. So get out of the computer screen, close the apps, and instead imagine that you're speaking with a friend or a career coach, and they're just asking you, hey, talk about your day to day. What do you really do? What are some things you accomplished? Or you can even look at your calendar for the last couple of months and let those events, those deadlines that you've put on there remind you of what you've done. You can use a voice memo recorder or dictate and then from there we can polish that up into resume language and jargon. Second strategy, just look at the job descriptions for the roles that you're targeting. Let their language remind you of what you've done and then align your language to match that.

Hope that these strategies help you get your writer's block away.

Tech Boundaries

Have you ever left an interview only to realize you forgot to mention a standout experience or skill that could have highlighted your qualifications? Don’t worry—it happens to the best of us! Often, our minds process and recall information more clearly once the pressure is off.

But what do you do when this happens? In this blog, we’ll dive into a quick and easy strategy you can use. This approach not only highlights your qualifications but also demonstrates your ability to reflect and take initiative. Ready to make that follow-up count? Let’s break it down!

Youtube Short

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What do you do if you're interviewing for a job and you think of an answer or an experience of yours after the interview that could actually better showcase your skills and qualifications for that role? So of course you don't want to do this after every round of an interview, but sometimes this does happen because our brains are much more capable of having that creative problem solving and thinking when they're not under stress. So if it happens to you a few minutes or hours after an interview where you think of a better example, and especially if it's not reflected in your resume or application materials, here's what you do. When you send your thank you email, start by thanking them for their time and for sharing more about the role. Then say, as I reflected further on, your question regarding ABC, it reminded me of an example I failed to share with you. You give one to two sentences about that that demonstrates your fit for the role or your school skills or qualifications and that's it. Then you wrap up with your enthusiasm and looking forward to next steps. Hope this helps you!

Adding an Answer After an Interview

It’s happened to the best of us: You’re walking out of an interview or reflecting on it hours later when suddenly, a better answer or example comes to mind—one that could have showcased your skills and qualifications even more effectively. While this can be frustrating, there’s a professional and strategic way to handle it.

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What do you do if you're interviewing for a job and you think of an answer or an experience of yours after the interview that could actually better showcase your skills and qualifications for that role? So of course you don't want to do this after every round of an interview, but sometimes this does happen because our brains are much more capable of having that creative problem solving and thinking when they're not under stress. So if it happens to you a few minutes or hours after an interview where you think of a better example, and especially if it's not reflected in your resume or application materials, here's what you do:

When you send your thank you email, start by thanking them for their time and for sharing more about the role. Then say, as I reflected further on, your question regarding ABC, it reminded me of an example I failed to share with you. You give one to two sentences about that that demonstrates your fit for the role or your school skills or qualifications and that's it. Then you wrap up with your enthusiasm and looking forward to next steps. Hope this helps you!

Answering a Multi-Part Interview Question

Job interviews can be stressful, especially when you’re asked a question that feels like two or three questions rolled into one. These complex, multi-part questions are particularly challenging because they require you to process and remember multiple pieces of information—all while managing the pressure of the interview setting.

But don’t worry—there’s a way to handle these tricky questions with confidence and clarity.

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Have you ever been in a job interview where you're asked a question, but it's really like two to three questions in one? Those are very, very challenging for us to remember. first of all, because it's a lot of information, but second of all, when we're typically a little bit more nervous or stressed in an interview, our cognitive resources are a little bit more offline. It's harder to kind of track everything because our bodies are in that fight, flight, freeze mode.

So two strategies, one is do as much as you can to manage your stress prior to an interview, but two, here's what you can do. Or if you just really don't know what you're gonna answer for that question, you can also use this strategy one-off as needed. So you can ask them to repeat the question, and it's totally fine to take notes and write it down, whether you're in person or virtually. And then as you're writing it down, your brain's going to start to think of the examples, and a lot of people are scared to ask for that question to be repeated, but it is very much okay.

Interviewing Mind Blank

Interviews can be nerve-wracking, and one of the most dreaded moments is when you’re asked a question, and your mind goes completely blank. Sound familiar? Don’t worry—you’re not alone. It’s a common fear, but with the right approach, you can navigate this scenario with confidence and poise.

Here’s a simple yet effective strategy to handle those moments:

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What do you do if you're interviewing and you get asked a question and your mind goes completely blank? It's pretty much everyone's worst fear in the job search process, but I have a tool for you to keep in your back pocket. Now, part of what we can do to mitigate the risk of this happening is to prep as much as possible. So definitely check out my other tips and strategies for interview prep. But if the worst case happens, here's what you can do. Acknowledge the question. So look the person in the eye and say, thank you for that question. Let me think about that for just one moment. As you say that you can break eye contact and look away, which takes a little bit of the pressure off and then your brain is going to start to have some space to come up with your answer. So it's going to feel those three seconds or five seconds that you look away and think is going to feel like three hours to you, but it's much better than stumbling and mumbling your way through an incoherent answer.

Happiness Savoring Strategy

Happiness isn’t just about big milestones or grand achievements—it often lies in the small, everyday moments. One way to tap into this daily joy is through the practice of savoring.

As part of The Science of Happiness program at Yale, Laurie Santos explores this concept in a video that’s free and accessible to all. In this Youtube short, you’ll find a quick breakdown of how savoring can enhance your happiness:

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Here is your happiness assignment: Explore your relationship with savoring. Now, I'm going to link to a video that Lauri Santos delivers as part of her The Science of Happiness program at Yale. Highly recommend it. It's free and accessible to all, but this little thing can really permeate all areas of your life, and it's a practice that you can cultivate. And some people are natural savorers. So if you think about something that is a little pleasure in your day, so maybe that warm cup of coffee, first thing in the morning? What's one thing that you can think about that's pleasurable in your day to day? And, really be mindful and attuned to any sensations that go on in that moment. So that's the process of savoring. And the science shows that this can extend those feelings of joy, of contentment and influence our happiness.

Embracing the Cringe: A Job Search Strategy That Works

When it comes to job searching and interview prep, there’s one strategy that can make a world of difference: focusing on the cringe. This approach helps candidates tackle their insecurities and turn perceived weaknesses into strengths.

As a Career Coach, I’ve found this method invaluable for my clients. Watch this Youtube Short to hear my tips on embracing the cringe.

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One strategy that I help my career coaching clients with when they're job searching and doing interview prep is to focus on the cringe. Now, if you're applying for a position where you're having to level up or you're pushing yourself a little bit outside of your comfort zone and growing into the role, sometimes when you read through the position description, you think, I don't really have that experience. I hope they don't ask me about this. And for many of us, we use an avoidance strategy. We think, I really hope they don't ask this, so I'm not going to even think about it. Now, go through the job description, look at any of those things where you think they could notice that you're not bringing as much to the table as someone else, and practice out loud and over-prepare for those questions. Best case scenario, they don't end up asking about it, but if you just avoid it, it's still likely that it's gonna come up, and the more you prepare and walk through that with a coach or yourself, the less cringy it'll be when you deliver your answer.

Career Change Story

Career changes can be daunting, but they also present exciting opportunities for growth and fulfillment. In this blog post and Youtube Short, we dive into an inspiring career change story that showcases the power of adaptability and perseverance. Whether you’re contemplating a career shift or simply looking for motivation, this story offers valuable insights into navigating the complexities of changing professional paths.

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I finally listened to that nagging feeling that had been weighing on me for a number of months. It was my junior year of college at Villanova. I had done pretty much all the requirements for my elementary education concentration but I had realized that I didn't want to be a teacher anymore and there was a lot of grief and a lot of anxiety around having spent all that time, money, and energy pursuing something and then changing my mind. I finally got up the guts to tell my parents and then I got up the guts to go to Career Services and work with a coach to figure out what I wanted to do but here's the plot twist!

I was pretty pissed after I left my first session with a career coach because I went in expecting and hoping that if I told them what I brought to the table they would just tell me what to do with my life but I came back around. I worked with a coach and through that relationship I learned what my values, interest, personality, and skills really were and what I wanted my work to mean to me. And, through that I discovered the path that I'm still on today over 15 years in.

So, if you have this sinking feeling in your gut and you just know there's a disconnect between what you're doing and where you'd rather be spending your time and energy and maybe you don't know what the thing is but you know it's not this here's your sign your nudge to listen to that to lean into that fear and give yourself that time and attention to figure out what will feel more aligned for you.

Combat Imposter Syndrome

Impostor syndrome is a common experience where individuals feel like frauds despite their accomplishments. This can often undermine confidence, stifle career growth, and create unnecessary stress. Understanding and overcoming impostor syndrome is crucial for both personal wellbeing and professional success. Watch this Youtube Short to help you navigate and conquer these feelings.

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Use this tip to help bolster your confidence in any organization that you might be in or if you're stepping into a new role and feeling a little bit of impostor syndrome. This can also be really helpful if you are job searching. So I call it the happy face folder. Anytime you have had good feedback from a performance review maybe you've gotten a kind comment from a client, customer, or colleague save these things and put them into a folder in your email that's literally just a happy face. Anytime that you start to feel that self-doubt, you might be in a growth edge where you're working on something you're not as skilled at, check out your happy face folder. Especially when you're job searching and you're not hearing back from organizations or maybe you didn't get selected this can be the thing to give you that little nudge and Pat on your back to remind you you have a lot to offer

Walk Me Through Your Resume

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Walk me through your resume. If you ever get asked that in an interview or a networking conversation don't answer it! Literally, what happens is it ends up being a mini life story and filled with a lot of information that doesn't actually pertain to the conversation at hand. So, the question within the question that the other person's really trying to get at is: tell me what I need to know about you, your background, and your experience that matters for this conversation at hand that shows you’re a good fit for this job opportunity. If you keep that in mind and use that to frame your answer and what you highlight about your background it's going to be a much more effective answer.

The Best Interview Preparation

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What's the best way to go about prepping for a job interview and knowing what questions you're going to get asked? Start with the job description. So many of my clients before we work together when they're called for interviews they start by Googling frequently asked interview questions or common interview questions and while that's not a bad practice it's not the best way to go about it. You have all the clues in the job description to know what the organization is curious about so take that and dissect it and turn everything from the duties to the qualifications and skills into questions.

So, for example if they talk about a need for project management skills they're probably going to ask a question like: tell me about a time when you managed a project. You can also use Chat GPT or one of your favorite AI tools plug it in and say act as a hiring manager and create a sample list of questions pertinent to this role. From there, you can then start to zoom out and look at those frequently asked questions like tell me about yourself but this is going to be much more effective.

Two Books for Work and Wellbeing

In the pursuit of a more fulfilling and balanced life, sometimes the simplest solutions are the most transformative. If you're looking to enhance both your professional and personal well-being, there are two essential books that offer profound insights and practical advice.

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Here are two books that can really impact your work and your well-being. The first is Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nester. About 90% of us are breathing incorrectly and I don't share that to scare or fear-monger but to build awareness that a lot of us are disconnected from the best way of creating this foundation of well-being within ourselves that can really impact all areas of our lives. The other book I want to mention is Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived Joyful Life. This is one of the books I recommend the most for my clients and for people just thinking about how to re-engage with their work and re-engage with activities both in and outside of the office that bring them joy. It's filled with activities and prompts to help you really get reflective about how you're spending your time hope that these books help you take good care of yourself no matter what you're up to.

Do This When You Can't Sleep

If you've ever found yourself tossing and turning in bed, desperately wishing for sleep that just won’t come, you're not alone. Sleep is one of the most vital components of our well-being, but when we’re stressed or burned out, it can often be the first thing to suffer. Whether you're dealing with burnout from work, caregiving, or just life's demands, the quest for restful sleep can seem elusive. Fortunately, there are practical strategies that can help you reclaim your nights and restore your energy. Let's dive into some effective tools and techniques to improve your sleep quality, even when you're feeling overwhelmed.

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if you want to know more about the stages of burnout or the different characteristics and qualities to look for to assess if you're burned out or not definitely check out some of the other videos on this channel but I want to share a tool that is easier said than done that can be supportive no matter where you are on that burnout cycle.

Sleep is one of the most healing things that we can do for our minds, bodies, and souls. It's often one of the things that can really go by the wayside when we're burned out. Whether our burnout is coming from caregiving or if it's from our work a lot of times when our plates are more full we sacrifice sleep. Think about what you can control and what is within your power to tinker with to get better sleep. Another strategy is Yoga Nidra if you're trying to sleep and you're not able to go down or you're waking up and having trouble going back down this is a form of non-sleep deep rest that can help your body feel like it's recovered that lost sleep.

Take Control of Your Sleep

Remember, even when burnout feels overwhelming, there are steps you can take to improve your sleep and overall well-being. By implementing practical sleep strategies and incorporating Yoga Nidra into your routine, you can help your body and mind recover from stress and exhaustion.

Sleep is a powerful tool for healing and recovery. By prioritizing it and using techniques like sitting in stillness and Yoga Nidra, you can enhance your rest and resilience, helping you navigate through burnout with greater ease. Sweet dreams and restful nights ahead!

Unlock the Power of Hugs

We all have that one friend or family member who's known for giving long, warm hugs—the kind that last a little longer than most. While it might seem like just a quirk, there's actually some science backing up their embrace. According to Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by the Nagatsuki sisters, a 20-second hug can be a powerful tool for combating stress and resetting your body’s natural balance.

When we face stress, our bodies often go into fight, flight, or freeze mode—a natural response designed to protect us from danger. But in our modern lives, these stressors are less about physical threats and more about work deadlines, social pressures, or personal challenges. And while the stress triggers have evolved, our physiological responses haven’t quite caught up. That’s where the long hug comes in.

What Happens During a 20-Second Hug?

When you engage in a 20-second or longer hug, several positive changes occur in your body:

1. Hormonal Shifts: Your body starts to release oxytocin, often referred to as the "love hormone." This chemical not only promotes feelings of bonding and connection but also helps reduce cortisol levels, which are associated with stress.

2. Lowered Blood Pressure: As you relax into the embrace, your blood pressure begins to drop, which is a sign that your body is moving out of the high-alert state that stress often triggers.

3. Slowed Heart Rate: Alongside the drop in blood pressure, your heart rate slows down, signaling to your body that it’s safe to exit the fight-or-flight mode.

How to Use This Strategy

If you’re feeling overwhelmed or caught in a stress cycle, consider leaning into a hug. It doesn’t have to be forced or awkward—just a genuine, comforting embrace. If this feels accessible and safe for you, it can be a simple yet effective way to help your body return to a more grounded state.

So the next time you find yourself on the receiving end of a long hug, don’t rush it. Embrace the moment—literally—and let it be a tool for resetting your stress response. Your body and mind will thank you for it.

Surprising Job Search Mindset Tool

Job search resilience refers to the ability to remain positive, motivated, and persistent despite the challenges you might face during the job search process. Watch this video to learn a tip that can help build job search resilience.

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I want to share one of the most creative things I have heard when it comes to thinking about job search resilience. So I was speaking at a conference and my co-panelist shared that she had been laid off from a job and every morning before she got started with her applications and her networking, she would watch a commencement speech.

Now that was not the thing that I was expecting to hear. And she shared that a lot of times in those speeches, people are talking about really hard times in their lives, how they persevered, and then usually they're pretty successful people. So I thought this was so thoughtful, so creative, so out of the box, and a great way to think about taking care of your mindset and your mental health when going through something that can be pretty challenging for many people.

So I hope that this tool is supportive for you, whether you've been laid off or not, to help you have another tool in the toolkit for taking good care of yourself.

Salary Negotiation

Have you had the desire to negotiate your salary but you’re not sure how your employer will react? Turns out salary negotiation is common and even expected from the majority of employers. Explore compelling reasons why negotiating your salary is helpful for your career success.

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Did you know that about 70% of organizations expect candidates to negotiate after they're given a job offer? Yet only about 50% of people actually do that negotiation. Now there's a lot of factors at hand, and I do want you to know, if you're excited about and happy about the offer, then you don't have to feel pressure to negotiate.

That being said, a lot of times we just get anxious, and I notice that my clients just get nervous that an offer will be rescinded, and that is what prevents them from negotiating. There are many different ways to approach this conversation in a respectful and grounded way, to advocate in the facts and the data that you do deserve more without offending an organization or the employer at hand.

If this is something you're interested in learning more about, I'm happy to connect. But even just knowing that many people put an offer out there expecting you to ask for more can be the nudge that a lot of people need.

Breathing While Scrolling

Have you heard of screen apnea? Explore this phenomenon where we unconsciously hold our breath while using digital devices. Screen apnea can lead to increased stress and decreased cognitive function. Keep reading to learn the the importance of mindfulness and breath awareness to mitigate its effects and promote overall well-being.

I invite you to use this blog post to practice conscious breathing while scrolling!

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Check in right now as you're on your screen on your breathing. Odds are very, very high that it's really shallow in your chest. You might even be going in and out through your mouth. And at certain points, you might even be somewhat holding your breath without realizing it. This is a concept called screen apnea.

Linda Stone, a former Microsoft executive, came up with this term. And it relates to this phenomenon of not even noticing when we're in a deep level of focus and concentration or honestly also mindless scrolling on our phones, there's so much stimulation and our focus is so narrow that we tend to really slow down the pace of our breath.

Now there's a lot of different things to think about with this, but you might notice you feel exhausted at the end of a day, even if it wasn't very stressful because of this type of breathing. This turns our nervous systems into more of that fight, flight, freeze mode because when we breathe in this shallow way, we think that we're looking for, our bodies think that we're perceiving a threat or watching or a threat. So check in on your breathing and make sure you take some breaks and follow for more tips.

Quick Burnout Check-In

Explore the hidden costs of burnout in this quick video. Uncover the toll that chronic stress can take on your well-being and productivity. Implementing small changes can lead to significant improvements in your overall satisfaction and effectiveness at work.

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Many of us spend our days in go, go, go, move, move, move, do, do, do mode. And this is a quick check in to get a sense of whether or not you're headed down a path towards burnout.

Burnout Criteria

So the three criteria that were originally part of the 1975 definition of burnout by Herbert Freudenberger are a decreased sense of accomplishment, a depersonalization and emotional exhaustion. Now we know that burnout can come from many areas of life, not just work as it was originally coined to be referencing, but check in on each of these and see how many of them hold true to you.

Do you feel like nothing you do really matters anymore? Do you feel less empathy or sympathy or compassion for the people around you? And do you feel just emotionally exhausted, exhausted most of the time?

If that's the case, I highly recommend that you start to build that self-awareness to take some action to take good care of yourself and get the support that you need.

Facing Farewell: Resources for End-of-Life Care and Grief

This is a post I wish I never had the knowledge to be able to write…

When my mother went to the Emergency Room in September of 2019, she was diagnosed with Stage IV non-smokers lung cancer and told she had months to live.

I gleaned many lessons and resources over the next two years of her decline, subsequent death, and while navigating the “after” and grieving process.

I’m publishing this on the 2-year anniversary of her death and am called to briefly share about her before getting into the resources.

Patricia Hayes Axtmayer was one of the kindest humans to walk the earth. She was a nurse, Red Cross Volunteer, blood and platelet donor, mom, mentor, grandmother, sister, lover of libraries, dog rescuer, half marathoner, and the woman who dedicated her days to making other people happy. She lived her 70 years in service to making the world better, even donating her body to medical school for research as a final act of selflessness.

I like to think that her legacy of helping others lives on through my words today, in sharing tools to support others through this incredibly challenging and inevitable part of life.

Whether you’re witnessing someone aging, caring for a person with a terminal illness or at the end of their life, or are in the throes of grieving the death of a loved one, there is something for you in the words to come.

No matter what, I hope you know that you are not alone.

Anticipatory Grief

I didn’t really know about this concept before my mom was given a terminal diagnosis. The nutshell definition is: “the distress a person may feel in the days, months or even years before the death of a loved one or other impending loss.”

This article goes more in depth into what anticipatory grief is, how it may feel, and more, as the term transcends the conversation around death and can relate to other potential losses and big changes in life as well.

Recently, it became clear that this feeling hits home for many when a tweet stating “We don’t talk enough about the anticipatory grief of watching your parents age” went viral.

An important note is that there is conflicting data around whether experiencing anticipatory grief can help soften the blow later. I can speak from my own experience to say that it didn’t – and I was surprised and unprepared for that reality.

We were told mom had months to live, but through clinical trials and different chemotherapy regimens, she made it two years. I wrote the bulk of my mother’s eulogy and obituary while she was still alive. We spoke together about death, a future without her in this physical world, and I pre-picked the favors for her memorial mass during what ended up being her final days of life (the favors turned out to be a charming tribute to her love of gardening).

My Type A personality may have subconsciously thought that I could project manage my grief…

While I’m grateful I was able to do these things before (anything that lightens your administrative and cognitive load during those initial weeks of grieving is a huge help), it did nothing to lessen the devastation when she died.

I share this not to be the bearer of doom-and-gloom but because I think it’s important to have realistic expectations - you can prepare all you want but it’s likely you will never be fully ready for what it feels like to experience the loss. That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with you, it’s just the nature of what comes with something this monumental.

There is a formula that comes from Buddhist tradition that relates well to this:

I was frustrated by the depth of pain I felt because her death was expected. That resistance made my suffering worse. Perhaps with an awareness of this concept, you’ll be less likely to resist your pain even though accepting it is incredibly hard as well.

Palliative Care

This is another term many people aren’t familiar with and/or don’t know of as a potential resource.

Here is a good synopsis provided by Cleveland Clinic:

“Palliative care provides symptom relief, comfort and support to people living with serious illnesses like heart disease, cancer or chronic respiratory disease. Its benefits extend to caretakers, too. If you’re living with a life-altering illness, palliative care may be available to improve your health and overall well-being.”

The article goes on to describe different aspects of palliative care including populations that can benefit (anyone with an incurable medical condition of any age/stage), who provides it, and the breadth of support it’s designed to provide.

The hospital my mom received cancer care from had a palliative care division, but I found we really had to advocate to tap into their resources. I won’t go into the politics than can exist between various providers in the healthcare system, and I’m sure it plays out differently depending on where you are/what the medical situation is, but at some larger institutions the left hand may not know what the right is doing.

So, it’s important to know about and that you can ask for this kind of support!

An example of how this can look: my mom often had many side effects from her chemo treatments and we could only cover so much in a short appointment with the oncologist. Working with the palliative team, we could spend more time talking through all areas of my mom’s life, her goals, and how to best support her both physically and mentally (for example in addition to medications they made a referral to the social work team).

The best time to tap into palliative resources is as soon as you can, as it’s designed to accompany you in navigating everything from the financial to emotional components to symptom management.

In fact, “patients who receive palliative care early in their disease course may live longer than if they did not receive palliative care, or received it later in the disease course.” JAMA.

Also, “Recent clinical trials examining the effects of early integration of specialty palliative care show marked improvement in patient satisfaction, mood, quality of life, health care utilization, and overall survival. For example, patients who received early in-home palliative care services in addition to usual care had fewer emergency department visits, hospital admissions, and lower medical costs.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5730447/

My absolute favorite expert on all things palliative medicine is Dr Sunita Puri – her book That Good Night: Life and Medicine in the Eleventh Hour is an exceptional read and really examines the ways the medical system can relieve suffering and become more comfortable with end of life discussions.

I read her book while my mom was alive, and it helped me learn more about how the system should address suffering and whole-person care, which empowered me to advocate for her through the last years of her life.

If you’d like to get a taste of this concept, here is Dr Puri talking about what I hope will be the norm in medicine to help patients and families avoid unnecessary suffering and examine quality of life over quantity of time alive.

My mom had the “gift of the gab” and always asked her providers to share how THEY were doing. Here we’re speaking with her palliative medicine doctor to explore additional symptom support

Hospice: Inpatient vs. Home Care

Some people confuse palliative care and hospice care – these are distinct and if you’re new to end of life conversations, it’s important to clarify what hospice is:

“Like palliative care, hospice provides comprehensive comfort care as well as support for the family, but, in hospice, attempts to cure the person's illness are stopped. Hospice is provided for a person with a terminal illness whose doctor believes he or she has six months or less to live if the illness runs its natural course.”

For example, when my mom was working with the palliative care team, she was still receiving chemotherapy. When it stopped working, she stopped infusions and transitioned fully to hospice care. The oncology team told her she would have 1-2 months left, and she died 29 days later.

Here are some resources that cover the FAQ’s about hospice care, including different types of options for where to receive it, insurance coverage, and more:

• https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/frequently-asked-questions-about-hospice-care

• https://www.cancer.org/cancer/end-of-life-care/hospice-care/who-provides-hospice-care.html

The great debate for many people is whether to receive inpatient care or to do home hospice care.

It’s a huge question with lots to consider, and much easier to talk through when it’s a hypothetical. Most people end up being in a position to choose when it’s time sensitive because who wants to think about dying?! More on that soon…

We did home hospice, and a few things I think are important to share:

• It does NOT include around the clock care – the primary caretaker/family/friends are responsible for the care which can include symptom management, medication management, lifting the person in/out of bed or wheelchair, helping the person to the bathroom / changing diapers, managing procurement of and refilling supplies.

• Typically, a hospice nurse comes to provide home visits at a certain cadence depending on the medical details. Our experience was a once/week visit with lovely, kind, and caring nurses. The provider rotated between 3 or so nurses. There are options to pay for private care to get additional care, and some insurance may have benefits to help with the financial side of that, but it’s another logistic to manage.

• It was incredibly hard, even with the shifts spread across us 4 children and a few dear family friends. It was also a privilege to care for her, and beyond special to know my mom was where she wanted to be for the end of her life - feeling the good energy and surroundings of a place she lived for 40 years. 

Death Doula

This is yet another resource that’s not as well known – perhaps more than all of the others mentioned here so far!

Only a few years ago I had NO idea this was a profession. These beautiful souls focus on helping a dying person and their loved ones before, during and after death.

“An end-of-life doula provides emotional and physical support, education about the dying process, preparation for what’s to come and guidance while you’re grieving.” https://health.clevelandclinic.org/death-doula/

Other terms can be death midwife, end of life doula, end of life coach, or death coach.

I found a local death doula and we met with her once… we thought we had more time, but my mom died only 3 days after our conversation with her.

We sat together on the porch, one of my mom’s favorite places, sipping tea and talking about life. Their conversation went into some philosophical places, and my sister and I saw a reflective side of my mom through witnessing this exchange. My sister even used part of their conversation in her eulogy, and we’re forever grateful that my mom was able to feel supported through this offering.

Here is an example of a well-known death doula, and she has a directory of other providers on her website as well.

Legacy Work

Something that can be done with or without death doulas is legacy work.

This can take many forms and people can either be heavily involved or not much involved depending on the project.

I love this description from Penn Medicine: “A challenging diagnosis often leads people to think about their legacy, what and who they will eventually leave behind. People often think of their financial situation, but almost always, there is the shift to our relationships. We think about what people mean to us, what we want to share with them, what we hope for them.

Unfortunately, all too often, these thoughts stay thoughts and aren’t actually put into motion or shared. “Legacy work” is the process of transforming these thoughts into action. It’s the act of sitting down and taking time to purposefully create something for the people you love and care about. It is a way to capture life stories, lessons, sentiments, memories, and traditions. Legacies can convey what we want remaining and future generations to know and understand about our life experiences. They help us to remember and heal as we carry on important traditions.”

That link goes into many examples of what this can look like – which includes capturing family recipes, stories, photos, and voices. This doesn’t have to be something you wait to do until end of life or a terminal diagnosis, and Storyworth is one example of a platform designed to capture stories in a longitudinal way.

If that quote I shared above about aging parents resonated with you, you can explore this for yourself now! Here are more prompts: https://www.legacyproject.org/activities/lifestory.html

I shared my mom’s original prognosis in a new mom Facebook group and asked for ideas to keep her memory alive for my daughter since she was only 3 months old. I was met with such compassion, kindness, and many actionable ideas (which is impressive since mom Facebook groups have a pretty bad reputation!).

One that stood out: “if there’s any habits she has - try to save those! Example: my mom always called and sang me happy birthday. I would give anything to have that recorded somewhere. My birthday has been the hardest part of losing her for that reason.”

Weirdly enough, I had a voicemail saved from 2017 where my mom sang happy birthday to me and left one of her epic signature long-winded ramble-y messages. I listen to it often and it’s quite the balm on harder days.

Resources:

This is already 4 pages long in MS Word so I better cut myself off soon! Additional resources:

Grief… I could do an entire post on this topic alone, but there are experts out there for that. I’ll share a few things that I found helpful.

A friend, whose sister had died a few years prior, sent me this reddit post. The wave analogy and the reminder that grief is also love was comforting, especially in the initial stage of feeling overcome and weighed down by the intensity of it all.

The ball and box analogy for grief can be a supportive framework for how your feelings may evolve over time. That same friend sent me this podcast episode called “Grateful for Grief” between Anderson Cooper and Stephen Colbert which had me reaching for the tissues.

These are some ways to care for your mind/body through the demands of caretaking and grieving (I personally have used all of these and credit these modalities as being critical to surviving the trauma of it all):

• EMDR Therapy- specific modality for working through trauma. This website has a directory for finding practitioners.

• Acupuncture – game changer! I worked with Heather at Wander Well Acupuncture here in MA when trying to conceive all the way through to today for general support. You name it, acupuncture can help address it.

• Therapy – I was a new mom, partner, friend, sister, daughter, caretaker, business owner, coach, and wellness speaker (and then in the midst of it all, COVID happened!). I needed a place to be able to fall apart. In managing and holding space for others most of each day, this was a sacred place to just be a mess and feel supported by someone else.

• https://endwellproject.org/ - their talks and resources are impressive. I’ve found the recordings of talks especially inspirational. From them: “End Well has become the most widely known and respected organization at the intersection of popular culture and healthcare with a focus on end of life, grief, loss, caregiving, and associated health and welfare challenges.” They have a “fresh perspective and commitment to infusing wonder, joy and hope into these conversations while also tackling the tough stuff.”

• Family Medical Leave Act in the USA (additional info here): There are eligibility requirements and different policies depending on where you live, but it’s important to know about potential options for leave from your employer if you’re a caretaker. I recently did a wellness workshop on burnout and a participant shared that after the session she realized she was fried and needed to get more support as she cared for her father. She was able to use the policy to go part-time in her work, and is markedly less stressed in managing competing demands and able to be more present with her father. Here are 5 things employers get wrong about caregivers at work. The more we share our struggles, ask for resources and policies, and normalize the human experience, the more likely we can ignite greater change.

Books:

• A Beginner's Guide to the End: Practical Advice for Living Life and Facing Death by BJ Miller and Shoshanna Berger. This is a must read for all humans, whether you have a chronic illness, are near end of life, or a regular ol’ 40 year old. It’s a phenomenal resource for ALL parts of preparing for the inevitable end – literally all of the things, from getting affairs in order to what to expect of the mind and the body in its final stages of life.

• Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End by Atul Gawande. Another exceptional read (and dovetails nicely with the book mentioned above by Dr Sunita Puri). My dearest friend has used this as a framework for navigating proactive conversations with her family members to know what everyone’s wishes are in (the hopefully very distant) end.

Grief focused books:

• Healing After Loss: Daily Meditations For Working Through Grief by Martha Whitmore Hickman. This is my absolute favorite for myself and that I’ve purchased it for others. If you cringed at the meditation part, it’s not actually meditation. Each calendar page has a quote and a short note that usually strikes a comforting/validating chord.  

• Full disclaimer- I only partially read these two books that were recommended to me. I tried to read them before my mom died and again in the very initial month or so after, and my grief brain fog didn’t allow much to sink in. It's OK That You're Not OK: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn't Understand by Megan Devine and also Anxiety: The Missing Stage of Grief: A Revolutionary Approach to Understanding and Healing the Impact of Loss by Claire Bidwell Smith (she also runs grief programs/workshops).

Wrap it up, Aileen!

Death is fascinating in that it’s one of the only things that every human has in common – one of the only guarantees – yet one of the most avoided topics.

I hope that if you’re reading this, you and your loved ones are far away from needing the information… and perhaps this can inspire you to have the hard but important conversations when the stakes aren’t as high.

I know that most likely, you’ve read this far for other reasons. My heart is with yours and I’ll share what Susan David says as a reminder of the duality of life: “Life's beauty is inseparable from its fragility.” 

Wishing you and yours many more days of beauty and comfort ahead.

Thank you, Mom, for continuing to help others breathe easier. Love you more than the world.

Feeling the jet lag together in Ireland, one of her favorite places in the world, in 2010

What do burnout and quiet quitting have to do with one another?

Uncover the impact of "quiet quitting" and stress in this insightful video. Hear powerful stories and expert advice that highlight the toll chronic stress takes on individuals, leading to disengagement and decreased productivity. Gain practical strategies to address stress and create a healthier, more fulfilling work experience.

Auto-generated text below. Please excuse any typos!

Hello we are live the burnout panel on quiet quitting. Welcome everybody to the burnout panel on quiet quitting and we are going to talk to you about this phenomenon that seems to be taking the world by storm right now um there are at least two definitions of quiet quitting one is the person who's saying I'm going to set some boundaries I'm not going on this like ride or die right kind of focus on my work anymore I'm going to say some boundaries around that but then there's another group of people who seem to be really disengaging and are much more likely burning out and moving into that place where they really aren't sure if they want to be in their workplace anymore that's the group we're going to address today sharing with you what we think is going on with that group of people and how you might help them so let's kick it off with our first speaker:

Hi my name is Audrey Holst I am the founder of Fortitude and Flow and the creator of the Perfectionist Archetypes and I help high achieving individuals and teams to rewire from toxic perfectionism into a culture of excellence and we can't talk about quiet quitting without talking about perfectionism these things are are linked together and in order to talk about that we have to talk about the body because we are bringing our bodies to work every single day there are two questions that the body is always scanning for. Am I safe? and do I belong? This combination of perfectionism within an individual and within an organization can create a bit of a survival situation where people are showing up to work their bodies are feeling like they are walking into a tiger's cage every single day. Their body is getting flooded with cortisol and everyday basis and that is bouncing off of co-workers and it's creating a really tough environment which is creating those people who are starting to disengage out of survival this is how they're going to survive this job so some things to talk about is unrealistic expectations that can be again within self and other this is something that is imperfectionism this feeling that it has to be a plus work or not at all it has to be above and beyond and these unspoken cultural rules. So you may not have it in your contract that you you know have to come in early and stay late that may be baked into the culture so that is again trying to follow these very specific rules and maybe they're written or unwritten and having this self-identification with your job as being who you are so not really having anything to identify yourself and your own body outside of your work. Therefore everything having a really really intense impact on you. So in order to deal with this new world we have to figure out okay where is this perfectionism where are these threads how can we come out of this survival situation and become more of our full selves in our work. We have to address those individual and organizational expectations and clarify them. So it's really important to get clear on these things and I think that Aileen is going to be do a really great job talking about the values and how clarifying those can really help us shift what's going on.

Thank you so much Audrey hello everyone my name is Aileen Axtmayer. I'm a career coach and corporate Wellness speaker. One on one I help my clients land work that they love and then I help employers retain that talent through providing customized corporate Wellness workshops all around Stress Management and helping employees restore their energy so they can thrive in their jobs and when I think about quiet quitting and burnout in the intersection here I think you know in my 15 plus years of working with people one-on-one seeing people leave jobs both quietly and loudly there's something really interesting that goes on so a lot of times people end up in their professional roles either in a happenstance way so they couldn't find a job right out of college and then they ended up just doing something temporary and then temporary lends itself to five ten years later or they land work that they love but then as they grow and change as in their personal lives and their professional lives their roles aren't reflecting those changes and values and interests in personality and in the skill sets that they want to want to use not just what they're good at sometimes they're good at something but you don't enjoy using it so I like to encourage people whether it be employers or the employees themselves to zoom out we don't really do these career Wellness checkups we have our annual physical exams we don't do this on the professional level so I I recommend that we do and the framework that I use to examine this is VIPs so what are your values your interests your personality and your skills and when you can create space as an employer or as an employee to really examine these parts of yourself and understand where you're at with each of them you can then use that framework to  understand where your work might not be in alignment anymore and what you can do to really shift and feel like your values interest personality and skills are aligned with the work that you're doing so that's a little bit of my thoughts on how we develop personally and change professionally and how we can Tinker with things to really feel more engaged in our work I think Dr Sharon is going to kick us off into another angle to explore this phenomena.

My name is Dr Sharon Grossman and I am affectionately known as the burnout doc I work with busy Executives and entrepreneurs who feel burned out because their work and their lives feel like too much and they want more time for themselves and their families so what I would like to really shine a light on with regards to quiet quitting is let's take it back for a moment to the brain and when we're doing this quiet quitting thing really we're letting our primitive brain do what it does which is it tries to run away from pain and move towards pleasure but I think it's also important to look at the consequences of just allowing that to happen and not being involved on purpose in that process it's when you are giving up on your goals that you actually are giving up on yourself and why that's important is because you lose Integrity with yourself and we do this and then we justify it because it's uncomfortable because we're tired because we're unsure what I really would like to encourage people to do instead is to use your prefrontal cortex to manage your mind so all of the thoughts that create the stress that make you want to run away that you deal with that stress instead you deal with the overwhelm and make your decisions on purpose because achievement is what will allow you to feel pleasure once you've put in the work so rather than running away from things let's find a way to engage and find out how we can manage the stress rather than just try to take that other route and you know sometimes we do that because we're burned out which is understandable and one of the reasons we might be feeling burned out is because there's just a lot of things that are stewing in our mind and we end up feeling resentful and my good friend Cait Donovan is going to now take that angle and talk to us about quiet quitting and resentment.

Hi everybody my name is Cait Donovan. I work with organizations to reduce burnouts they can keep top talent and I work with people one-on-one to reduce burnout so they can stop hating their lives and I love resentment it's my favorite emotion and resentment and quiet quitting have one major thing in common and that is a feeling or perception of unfairness people quiet quit because things are unfair and they're pulling out they're disengaging right they're not getting out of this what they're put putting into it if we look at Merriam-Webster resentment is defined as bitter indignation at being treated unfairly so resentment and quiet quitting have a common root and I think we have to remember that so if we find a lot of quiet quitting in a corporate setting creating conversations around resentment with support please don't do this if you don't know how call me I'll help with support we can create conversations that allow resentment to be explored in a positive and beneficial way resentments turn into boundaries and boundaries help protect us and one of my favorite people who talks about boundaries energetically is Dr Sandra and she's gonna take over now and talk about boundaries in unresolved chronic stress.

Hello everybody um I am Dr Sandra Lewis and I am a clinical psychologist and personal energy strategist working with women organizations to reconnect them those resources that help them make the journey from burnout to sustainable leadership and an impact that brings them a lot of joy and satisfaction and the threat that I've been hearing us pull on today is This Thread about this nervous system of ours and how when that nervous system gets overwrought it's kind of like we go into survival mode so quiet quitting this this engagement that we see in quiet quitting is really an example of flight or fight right so we we're in this place of just we have disconnected because this thing hurts it's been unfair it's not people aren't recognizing me my talents are being utilized appropriately and now I'm in this situation where I feel like I need to escape so we disengage that's the flight response the flight response might be more of the person who is more cynical right so we're in this space of unresolved stress but when we disengage it's like we move we remove ourselves from the interaction with the stressor itself the lack of recognition or those kinds of things but but we still have the energy going in our body and our bodies stuck in that mode so one of the things that we have to begin to do is to reset our nervous system our nervous system is stuck in that place where we can't get anything we can't even access our mental capacity to make a decision that might bring us to a better place so the first thing is to start with regenerating and rejuvenating a nervous system so that then we can start to hear our creativity again we can start to think about building we can get to our mental energy that energy that allows us to think to what can I do in this situation what are my options we can get back to our emotional energy that ability that we have to actually navigate through stress and see a reasonable solution and to connect with those resources as Cait just mentioned connect with the resources that you need and we've talked a lot about the individuals but we also need the managers to help us so Vanessa's going to talk about how leadership can take apart in ending quiet quitting.

Yes yes yes and thank you lovely the panelists my lovely peers yes for those insights so these three R's that I'm going to share with you right now is from helping my clients reduce their turnover shut down their staff's nonsense and retain their employees while they have been able to lead their teams of employees in their brick and mortar shops and restaurants so these three are to ensure that you no longer have to deal with quiet quitting on your team because yes let's say you are that individual that you know has that require quitting for yourself but you might be watching also as a leader of a team where you're thinking to yourself how do I ensure that this doesn't happen again so three R's one being rewards so you want to ensure that you are acknowledging the great work that your employees are doing this doesn't have to be a five thousand dollar gift card to Best Buy though we would all appreciate that yes right absolutely um but this could even just be a simple thank you some of you love telling your employees what's wrong and you justify it by saying preparing them for a hard not life but really you're preparing them to quietly quit so let's ensure that you are at the very least saying thank you acknowledge them for their great work and doing those rewards number two refreshments and I don't mean appetizers but hey free delicious food let's go uh by Refreshments I mean hosting regular team check-ins they can be monthly they can be quarterly but team meetings where you are realigning with your team about your company's culture mission and vision and last but certainly not least the third are Recreation so Recreation meaning have fun help your employees have fun with each other right with you and the team a holiday party goes a long way but even my client recently hosted an end of summer celebration at the wine bar she didn't think anyone would show up and turned out only one person missed the other 11 employees actually came off the clock they weren't paid for it they came to work essentially to the workspace voluntarily just to have fun and enjoy so whether you're leading an entire business or you're leading a team in a department or you're about to become a leader and you want to do it better than your current boss is remember rewards refreshments and Recreation quiet quitting is preventable now at this time we would love to open the floor to any questions that you may have for us I see we have a question here in the comments that we would love to address at the moment let me pull that question up.

So Olivier asked us is quiet quitting the response of employees to cope to their job rather than to apply the great resignation um so let's go we can go around the room here who already wants to begin and start and we can just go around the room it's quiet quitting the responsive employees coping to their job rather than the great resignation Cait I write about this a lot because I thinkthat quiet quitting is a coping mechanism for Burnout when it is used not as a choice but as a natural reaction so I think we have to separate choosing quiet quitting to protect yourself and quiet quitting because you're so burned out that you have no other choice and you're just trying to make it through your day and not get fired so quiet quitting can be a coping mechanism if you are burnt out and unable to get out of your job at the moment or you think you're unable to get out which is a whole separate conversation we need Carol you know we need to talk about mindset there but yes I think that it can be anyone else on the panel want to address what are your thoughts on quiet quitting versus a great resignation Dr Sandra.

I would say uh yeah it can be and it's probably a more short-term solution it's like what we need right now just to manage to get through right it's just we are here now this situation is really awful and I've determined that in order for me to manage it I have to take a step back I have to do less than I usually do I'm not going to go 187 percent I'm just going to go now 98 to 100 and I'm going to take some time but then we still need to take that next step so what will it look like when my my work life is the one I really want to have and how do I get there yes love it love it look at us look at us yes and we have Audrey yes yeah I think that uh this is one of those things where it's like the all or nothing mindset either you're in it three billion percent or you're completely disengaged in it and there's this this inability or just this lack of skill for a lot of people to figure out how to exist in that middle space like people were talking about engagement versus disengagement or making a choice versus feeling like there is no choice like what's your body's perception of a situation which your mind's perception of a situation so um this is like the conversation of teaching people and giving people the skills in order to exist in that middle ground where you're not completely disengaged and fleeing but you're also not you know it's or not throwing yourself at your work 24 hours a day and feeling like you were identified with that so that's really the conversation we're having right here is how do we get more people exposed to this kind of work that exists in that in between space great question

Love it love it and let's see we have another we actually have two questions from Casey here uh she shares I'm gonna be too long for the screen but here we go I'm reading in some Global surveys that empathy is the number one most value leadership attribute at this time number one what are some actionable concrete steps that leaders can take that show they are empathizing with their team members and then two how can I as a stress team member find my own agency in this crazy world so I can address the first question and feel free peers to also add in and then we can go into number two as well from the individual perspective so in terms of Casey for your first question what are some actionable concrete stuff that leaders can take to show that you're empathizing with your team members and I would say in terms of I'll go back to the rewards perspective and also with the recreation so when it comes to the rewards it's acknowledging helping your team member being the leader that acknowledges your team member for the great work that they did right because it's very easy to say oh my God like you know they give you a piece of paper they finish some you know planning something out and you're like okay they planned that thing but in their mind they're they're saying to themselves I spent weeks on that I spend months on that how could you not give me a thank you how could you not give me a reward how could you not acknowledge me in front of the team for the work that I did right and so it's appreciating and knowledge the work that they put into all the steps that they did to you know get them whatever that they wanted to do that is going to go along with that empathy and the second thing is also you know people have lives so being a leader that understands that your employees have lives right and your employee just as you are perhaps a stress team member for your own leader Your Own Boss right they may be in that same position for themselves too right so how can you ensure that you know we're gonna go into my lovely friends here about to go you know drop some knowledge on how you as a stress team member can find your own agency but just being aware that your employees are people too just as you are and ensuring that you are just showing up and acknowledging and wearing and being aware of the work that they're putting in it goes such long way second question how can I distressed team member find my own agency oh Aileen and then Dr Sandra.

I think uh what a lot of one of us a lot of what we've touched on and talked in depth about today is that stress response and so I think most people especially when you're in that constant state where you're potentially burnt out and you just feel like you're wanting a sense of control you said we have more control over how we feel in our minds and bodies than I think many of us know and recognize so my recommendation is what do you already know that helps you turn that stress response down what helps ground you nourish you get you into that prefrontal cortex like we talked about and out of this survival mode I guarantee you for most people they know these things and that they just aren't doing them as much as they want to or could and it doesn't have to be you know this two-week vacation every month or whatever it might be although that sounds lovely and maybe that is the thing for you but sometimes it's truly just creating some space to be versus to do taking some deep belly breaths so all these simple practices can really be incredibly impactful for helping Center yourself and then the more you do that the more you realize you do have control and you can integrate some of these practice and practices anywhere anytime and then feel like you can see the world from a clearer lens so that's part of my take on that and I just think also the empathizing leader right this kind of empathy it's if that's really about this whole skill that people call emotional intelligence or you know again what our brain does right mirror neurons we see someone having an experience and we're able our brain actually responds as though we're having that experience so when a leader can know and read their own bodies and what how they're responding when they're in the room with someone and they can also notice what's happening with people then they can begin to be more empathetic they can also be more empathetic by just practicing mindful listening making sure that they're saying they're understanding what the person actually said to them because sometimes people answer a question for us and we already have decided what we think the answer is and we're running with that we haven't really listened to them so we want to First slow ourselves down enough to really hear what people are saying and hear those little clues that I'm burned out I really need some support I really need help, Dr Sharon.

So just to continue what everybody has been saying I think it's really important if you are a leader of a team until you work on your own stress it's going to be really hard for you to show up in your best form and the other thing I think is interesting is you know we're talking about empathy and how that's the number one most valued leadership attribute um and I think it's also important to consider the difference between empathy and compassion because sometimes when we're empathetic by definition we're kind of feeling other people's emotions and sometimes if they're stressed and we start to feel stressed and then we're not able to show up and lead them so as an alternative think about how to be more compassionate around what they're feeling once you've taken care of your own stress and that means that you understand that they're having a hard time but you're not necessarily feeling all of their emotions and that allows you to show up as that leader from a place of strength as opposed to now we're all in it together in this mess of stress you know so um it's just a way of kind of stepping back and maybe zooming out and I think a lot of this comes from working on yourself first and foremost and Cait throw in just one last thing Dr Kristen Donnelly who's a multi-time tedx speaker and a fellow speaker friend of ours of the groups did a huge amount of research into empathy into the definitions and the core of the word and what she found out was that underneath the word empathy actually all we're looking for is understanding the word understanding is the only commonality between all of the definitions of empathy so if leaders need to be more empathetic than they need to look to understand wonderful wonderful so we are we have Megan says really nicely said uh we have Kristen who mentioned this is awesome yes we have Casey who says y'all Rock oh well it's been our pleasure definitely to be here on the burnout panel we'll be here every month live on LinkedIn with different topics and I'm gonna pass it off here to Audrey to close us out.

It's it's so great to have to be able to hear everybody in like such a short little segment and basically you can take this as it's we're like a flight of tasters where you got to have a little tiny Taste of everybody's perspective and it was delicious for me just even being on this panel being having like these little tastes and there you can see where the commonalities and where the specific areas of expertise that everybody has and what a huge value that could bring to have all of these voices um be heard by your organization like imagine that your organization gets all of our voices and all of this information in like in a package together that's amazing like that's really an amazing thing like I'm excited just talking about it so we're gonna drop a link in the chat where you can check it out it is just a way to contact us gives your information your name organization need or if you are thinking of an organization you're like oh my gosh they need like they need this work they need this work let us know so we're gonna be doing this like I said every single month and when we can collect information that's also gonna help us like if you've got a topic that you want to hear us talk on to get a little taster whether you want to bring us on ask us about it we'd be happy to talk about it and that was the burnout panel on quiet quitting till next month foreign.