Walk Me Throught Your Resume

The text below is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos!

Walk me through your resume. If you ever get asked that in an interview or a networking conversation don't answer it! Literally, what happens is it ends up being a mini life story and filled with a lot of information that doesn't actually pertain to the conversation at hand. So, the question within the question that the other person's really trying to get at is: tell me what I need to know about you, your background, and your experience that matters for this conversation at hand that shows you’re a good fit for this job opportunity. If you keep that in mind and use that to frame your answer and what you highlight about your background it's going to be a much more effective answer.

The Best Interview Preparation

The text below is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos!

What's the best way to go about prepping for a job interview and knowing what questions you're going to get asked? Start with the job description. So many of my clients before we work together when they're called for interviews they start by Googling frequently asked interview questions or common interview questions and while that's not a bad practice it's not the best way to go about it. You have all the clues in the job description to know what the organization is curious about so take that and dissect it and turn everything from the duties to the qualifications and skills into questions.

So, for example if they talk about a need for project management skills they're probably going to ask a question like: tell me about a time when you managed a project. You can also use Chat GPT or one of your favorite AI tools plug it in and say act as a hiring manager and create a sample list of questions pertinent to this role. From there, you can then start to zoom out and look at those frequently asked questions like tell me about yourself but this is going to be much more effective.

Two Books for Work and Wellbeing

In the pursuit of a more fulfilling and balanced life, sometimes the simplest solutions are the most transformative. If you're looking to enhance both your professional and personal well-being, there are two essential books that offer profound insights and practical advice.

The text below is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos!

Here are two books that can really impact your work and your well-being. The first is Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nester. About 90% of us are breathing incorrectly and I don't share that to scare or fear-monger but to build awareness that a lot of us are disconnected from the best way of creating this foundation of well-being within ourselves that can really impact all areas of our lives. The other book I want to mention is Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived Joyful Life. This is one of the books I recommend the most for my clients and for people just thinking about how to re-engage with their work and re-engage with activities both in and outside of the office that bring them joy. It's filled with activities and prompts to help you really get reflective about how you're spending your time hope that these books help you take good care of yourself no matter what you're up to.

Do This When You Can't Sleep

If you've ever found yourself tossing and turning in bed, desperately wishing for sleep that just won’t come, you're not alone. Sleep is one of the most vital components of our well-being, but when we’re stressed or burned out, it can often be the first thing to suffer. Whether you're dealing with burnout from work, caregiving, or just life's demands, the quest for restful sleep can seem elusive. Fortunately, there are practical strategies that can help you reclaim your nights and restore your energy. Let's dive into some effective tools and techniques to improve your sleep quality, even when you're feeling overwhelmed.

Auto-generated text, please excuse any typos!

if you want to know more about the stages of burnout or the different characteristics and qualities to look for to assess if you're burned out or not definitely check out some of the other videos on this channel but I want to share a tool that is easier said than done that can be supportive no matter where you are on that burnout cycle.

Sleep is one of the most healing things that we can do for our minds, bodies, and souls. It's often one of the things that can really go by the wayside when we're burned out. Whether our burnout is coming from caregiving or if it's from our work a lot of times when our plates are more full we sacrifice sleep. Think about what you can control and what is within your power to tinker with to get better sleep. Another strategy is Yoga Nidra if you're trying to sleep and you're not able to go down or you're waking up and having trouble going back down this is a form of non-sleep deep rest that can help your body feel like it's recovered that lost sleep.

Take Control of Your Sleep

Remember, even when burnout feels overwhelming, there are steps you can take to improve your sleep and overall well-being. By implementing practical sleep strategies and incorporating Yoga Nidra into your routine, you can help your body and mind recover from stress and exhaustion.

Sleep is a powerful tool for healing and recovery. By prioritizing it and using techniques like sitting in stillness and Yoga Nidra, you can enhance your rest and resilience, helping you navigate through burnout with greater ease. Sweet dreams and restful nights ahead!

Unlock the Power of Hugs

We all have that one friend or family member who's known for giving long, warm hugs—the kind that last a little longer than most. While it might seem like just a quirk, there's actually some science backing up their embrace. According to Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by the Nagatsuki sisters, a 20-second hug can be a powerful tool for combating stress and resetting your body’s natural balance.

When we face stress, our bodies often go into fight, flight, or freeze mode—a natural response designed to protect us from danger. But in our modern lives, these stressors are less about physical threats and more about work deadlines, social pressures, or personal challenges. And while the stress triggers have evolved, our physiological responses haven’t quite caught up. That’s where the long hug comes in.

What Happens During a 20-Second Hug?

When you engage in a 20-second or longer hug, several positive changes occur in your body:

1. Hormonal Shifts: Your body starts to release oxytocin, often referred to as the "love hormone." This chemical not only promotes feelings of bonding and connection but also helps reduce cortisol levels, which are associated with stress.

2. Lowered Blood Pressure: As you relax into the embrace, your blood pressure begins to drop, which is a sign that your body is moving out of the high-alert state that stress often triggers.

3. Slowed Heart Rate: Alongside the drop in blood pressure, your heart rate slows down, signaling to your body that it’s safe to exit the fight-or-flight mode.

How to Use This Strategy

If you’re feeling overwhelmed or caught in a stress cycle, consider leaning into a hug. It doesn’t have to be forced or awkward—just a genuine, comforting embrace. If this feels accessible and safe for you, it can be a simple yet effective way to help your body return to a more grounded state.

So the next time you find yourself on the receiving end of a long hug, don’t rush it. Embrace the moment—literally—and let it be a tool for resetting your stress response. Your body and mind will thank you for it.

Breathing While Scrolling

Have you heard of screen apnea? Explore this phenomenon where we unconsciously hold our breath while using digital devices. Screen apnea can lead to increased stress and decreased cognitive function. Keep reading to learn the the importance of mindfulness and breath awareness to mitigate its effects and promote overall well-being.

I invite you to use this blog post to practice conscious breathing while scrolling!

Auto-generated text below. Please excuse any typos!

Check in right now as you're on your screen on your breathing. Odds are very, very high that it's really shallow in your chest. You might even be going in and out through your mouth. And at certain points, you might even be somewhat holding your breath without realizing it. This is a concept called screen apnea.

Linda Stone, a former Microsoft executive, came up with this term. And it relates to this phenomenon of not even noticing when we're in a deep level of focus and concentration or honestly also mindless scrolling on our phones, there's so much stimulation and our focus is so narrow that we tend to really slow down the pace of our breath.

Now there's a lot of different things to think about with this, but you might notice you feel exhausted at the end of a day, even if it wasn't very stressful because of this type of breathing. This turns our nervous systems into more of that fight, flight, freeze mode because when we breathe in this shallow way, we think that we're looking for, our bodies think that we're perceiving a threat or watching or a threat. So check in on your breathing and make sure you take some breaks and follow for more tips.

Quick Burnout Check-In

Explore the hidden costs of burnout in this quick video. Uncover the toll that chronic stress can take on your well-being and productivity. Implementing small changes can lead to significant improvements in your overall satisfaction and effectiveness at work.

Auto-generated text below. Please excuse any typos!

Many of us spend our days in go, go, go, move, move, move, do, do, do mode. And this is a quick check in to get a sense of whether or not you're headed down a path towards burnout.

Burnout Criteria

So the three criteria that were originally part of the 1975 definition of burnout by Herbert Freudenberger are a decreased sense of accomplishment, a depersonalization and emotional exhaustion. Now we know that burnout can come from many areas of life, not just work as it was originally coined to be referencing, but check in on each of these and see how many of them hold true to you.

Do you feel like nothing you do really matters anymore? Do you feel less empathy or sympathy or compassion for the people around you? And do you feel just emotionally exhausted, exhausted most of the time?

If that's the case, I highly recommend that you start to build that self-awareness to take some action to take good care of yourself and get the support that you need.

Facing Farewell: Resources for End-of-Life Care and Grief

This is a post I wish I never had the knowledge to be able to write…

When my mother went to the Emergency Room in September of 2019, she was diagnosed with Stage IV non-smokers lung cancer and told she had months to live.

I gleaned many lessons and resources over the next two years of her decline, subsequent death, and while navigating the “after” and grieving process.

I’m publishing this on the 2-year anniversary of her death and am called to briefly share about her before getting into the resources.

Patricia Hayes Axtmayer was one of the kindest humans to walk the earth. She was a nurse, Red Cross Volunteer, blood and platelet donor, mom, mentor, grandmother, sister, lover of libraries, dog rescuer, half marathoner, and the woman who dedicated her days to making other people happy. She lived her 70 years in service to making the world better, even donating her body to medical school for research as a final act of selflessness.

I like to think that her legacy of helping others lives on through my words today, in sharing tools to support others through this incredibly challenging and inevitable part of life.

Whether you’re witnessing someone aging, caring for a person with a terminal illness or at the end of their life, or are in the throes of grieving the death of a loved one, there is something for you in the words to come.

No matter what, I hope you know that you are not alone.

Anticipatory Grief

I didn’t really know about this concept before my mom was given a terminal diagnosis. The nutshell definition is: “the distress a person may feel in the days, months or even years before the death of a loved one or other impending loss.”

This article goes more in depth into what anticipatory grief is, how it may feel, and more, as the term transcends the conversation around death and can relate to other potential losses and big changes in life as well.

Recently, it became clear that this feeling hits home for many when a tweet stating “We don’t talk enough about the anticipatory grief of watching your parents age” went viral.

An important note is that there is conflicting data around whether experiencing anticipatory grief can help soften the blow later. I can speak from my own experience to say that it didn’t – and I was surprised and unprepared for that reality.

We were told mom had months to live, but through clinical trials and different chemotherapy regimens, she made it two years. I wrote the bulk of my mother’s eulogy and obituary while she was still alive. We spoke together about death, a future without her in this physical world, and I pre-picked the favors for her memorial mass during what ended up being her final days of life (the favors turned out to be a charming tribute to her love of gardening).

My Type A personality may have subconsciously thought that I could project manage my grief…

While I’m grateful I was able to do these things before (anything that lightens your administrative and cognitive load during those initial weeks of grieving is a huge help), it did nothing to lessen the devastation when she died.

I share this not to be the bearer of doom-and-gloom but because I think it’s important to have realistic expectations - you can prepare all you want but it’s likely you will never be fully ready for what it feels like to experience the loss. That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with you, it’s just the nature of what comes with something this monumental.

There is a formula that comes from Buddhist tradition that relates well to this:

I was frustrated by the depth of pain I felt because her death was expected. That resistance made my suffering worse. Perhaps with an awareness of this concept, you’ll be less likely to resist your pain even though accepting it is incredibly hard as well.

Palliative Care

This is another term many people aren’t familiar with and/or don’t know of as a potential resource.

Here is a good synopsis provided by Cleveland Clinic:

“Palliative care provides symptom relief, comfort and support to people living with serious illnesses like heart disease, cancer or chronic respiratory disease. Its benefits extend to caretakers, too. If you’re living with a life-altering illness, palliative care may be available to improve your health and overall well-being.”

The article goes on to describe different aspects of palliative care including populations that can benefit (anyone with an incurable medical condition of any age/stage), who provides it, and the breadth of support it’s designed to provide.

The hospital my mom received cancer care from had a palliative care division, but I found we really had to advocate to tap into their resources. I won’t go into the politics than can exist between various providers in the healthcare system, and I’m sure it plays out differently depending on where you are/what the medical situation is, but at some larger institutions the left hand may not know what the right is doing.

So, it’s important to know about and that you can ask for this kind of support!

An example of how this can look: my mom often had many side effects from her chemo treatments and we could only cover so much in a short appointment with the oncologist. Working with the palliative team, we could spend more time talking through all areas of my mom’s life, her goals, and how to best support her both physically and mentally (for example in addition to medications they made a referral to the social work team).

The best time to tap into palliative resources is as soon as you can, as it’s designed to accompany you in navigating everything from the financial to emotional components to symptom management.

In fact, “patients who receive palliative care early in their disease course may live longer than if they did not receive palliative care, or received it later in the disease course.” JAMA.

Also, “Recent clinical trials examining the effects of early integration of specialty palliative care show marked improvement in patient satisfaction, mood, quality of life, health care utilization, and overall survival. For example, patients who received early in-home palliative care services in addition to usual care had fewer emergency department visits, hospital admissions, and lower medical costs.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5730447/

My absolute favorite expert on all things palliative medicine is Dr Sunita Puri – her book That Good Night: Life and Medicine in the Eleventh Hour is an exceptional read and really examines the ways the medical system can relieve suffering and become more comfortable with end of life discussions.

I read her book while my mom was alive, and it helped me learn more about how the system should address suffering and whole-person care, which empowered me to advocate for her through the last years of her life.

If you’d like to get a taste of this concept, here is Dr Puri talking about what I hope will be the norm in medicine to help patients and families avoid unnecessary suffering and examine quality of life over quantity of time alive.

My mom had the “gift of the gab” and always asked her providers to share how THEY were doing. Here we’re speaking with her palliative medicine doctor to explore additional symptom support

Hospice: Inpatient vs. Home Care

Some people confuse palliative care and hospice care – these are distinct and if you’re new to end of life conversations, it’s important to clarify what hospice is:

“Like palliative care, hospice provides comprehensive comfort care as well as support for the family, but, in hospice, attempts to cure the person's illness are stopped. Hospice is provided for a person with a terminal illness whose doctor believes he or she has six months or less to live if the illness runs its natural course.”

For example, when my mom was working with the palliative care team, she was still receiving chemotherapy. When it stopped working, she stopped infusions and transitioned fully to hospice care. The oncology team told her she would have 1-2 months left, and she died 29 days later.

Here are some resources that cover the FAQ’s about hospice care, including different types of options for where to receive it, insurance coverage, and more:

• https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/frequently-asked-questions-about-hospice-care

• https://www.cancer.org/cancer/end-of-life-care/hospice-care/who-provides-hospice-care.html

The great debate for many people is whether to receive inpatient care or to do home hospice care.

It’s a huge question with lots to consider, and much easier to talk through when it’s a hypothetical. Most people end up being in a position to choose when it’s time sensitive because who wants to think about dying?! More on that soon…

We did home hospice, and a few things I think are important to share:

• It does NOT include around the clock care – the primary caretaker/family/friends are responsible for the care which can include symptom management, medication management, lifting the person in/out of bed or wheelchair, helping the person to the bathroom / changing diapers, managing procurement of and refilling supplies.

• Typically, a hospice nurse comes to provide home visits at a certain cadence depending on the medical details. Our experience was a once/week visit with lovely, kind, and caring nurses. The provider rotated between 3 or so nurses. There are options to pay for private care to get additional care, and some insurance may have benefits to help with the financial side of that, but it’s another logistic to manage.

• It was incredibly hard, even with the shifts spread across us 4 children and a few dear family friends. It was also a privilege to care for her, and beyond special to know my mom was where she wanted to be for the end of her life - feeling the good energy and surroundings of a place she lived for 40 years. 

Death Doula

This is yet another resource that’s not as well known – perhaps more than all of the others mentioned here so far!

Only a few years ago I had NO idea this was a profession. These beautiful souls focus on helping a dying person and their loved ones before, during and after death.

“An end-of-life doula provides emotional and physical support, education about the dying process, preparation for what’s to come and guidance while you’re grieving.” https://health.clevelandclinic.org/death-doula/

Other terms can be death midwife, end of life doula, end of life coach, or death coach.

I found a local death doula and we met with her once… we thought we had more time, but my mom died only 3 days after our conversation with her.

We sat together on the porch, one of my mom’s favorite places, sipping tea and talking about life. Their conversation went into some philosophical places, and my sister and I saw a reflective side of my mom through witnessing this exchange. My sister even used part of their conversation in her eulogy, and we’re forever grateful that my mom was able to feel supported through this offering.

Here is an example of a well-known death doula, and she has a directory of other providers on her website as well.

Legacy Work

Something that can be done with or without death doulas is legacy work.

This can take many forms and people can either be heavily involved or not much involved depending on the project.

I love this description from Penn Medicine: “A challenging diagnosis often leads people to think about their legacy, what and who they will eventually leave behind. People often think of their financial situation, but almost always, there is the shift to our relationships. We think about what people mean to us, what we want to share with them, what we hope for them.

Unfortunately, all too often, these thoughts stay thoughts and aren’t actually put into motion or shared. “Legacy work” is the process of transforming these thoughts into action. It’s the act of sitting down and taking time to purposefully create something for the people you love and care about. It is a way to capture life stories, lessons, sentiments, memories, and traditions. Legacies can convey what we want remaining and future generations to know and understand about our life experiences. They help us to remember and heal as we carry on important traditions.”

That link goes into many examples of what this can look like – which includes capturing family recipes, stories, photos, and voices. This doesn’t have to be something you wait to do until end of life or a terminal diagnosis, and Storyworth is one example of a platform designed to capture stories in a longitudinal way.

If that quote I shared above about aging parents resonated with you, you can explore this for yourself now! Here are more prompts: https://www.legacyproject.org/activities/lifestory.html

I shared my mom’s original prognosis in a new mom Facebook group and asked for ideas to keep her memory alive for my daughter since she was only 3 months old. I was met with such compassion, kindness, and many actionable ideas (which is impressive since mom Facebook groups have a pretty bad reputation!).

One that stood out: “if there’s any habits she has - try to save those! Example: my mom always called and sang me happy birthday. I would give anything to have that recorded somewhere. My birthday has been the hardest part of losing her for that reason.”

Weirdly enough, I had a voicemail saved from 2017 where my mom sang happy birthday to me and left one of her epic signature long-winded ramble-y messages. I listen to it often and it’s quite the balm on harder days.

Resources:

This is already 4 pages long in MS Word so I better cut myself off soon! Additional resources:

Grief… I could do an entire post on this topic alone, but there are experts out there for that. I’ll share a few things that I found helpful.

A friend, whose sister had died a few years prior, sent me this reddit post. The wave analogy and the reminder that grief is also love was comforting, especially in the initial stage of feeling overcome and weighed down by the intensity of it all.

The ball and box analogy for grief can be a supportive framework for how your feelings may evolve over time. That same friend sent me this podcast episode called “Grateful for Grief” between Anderson Cooper and Stephen Colbert which had me reaching for the tissues.

These are some ways to care for your mind/body through the demands of caretaking and grieving (I personally have used all of these and credit these modalities as being critical to surviving the trauma of it all):

• EMDR Therapy- specific modality for working through trauma. This website has a directory for finding practitioners.

• Acupuncture – game changer! I worked with Heather at Wander Well Acupuncture here in MA when trying to conceive all the way through to today for general support. You name it, acupuncture can help address it.

• Therapy – I was a new mom, partner, friend, sister, daughter, caretaker, business owner, coach, and wellness speaker (and then in the midst of it all, COVID happened!). I needed a place to be able to fall apart. In managing and holding space for others most of each day, this was a sacred place to just be a mess and feel supported by someone else.

• https://endwellproject.org/ - their talks and resources are impressive. I’ve found the recordings of talks especially inspirational. From them: “End Well has become the most widely known and respected organization at the intersection of popular culture and healthcare with a focus on end of life, grief, loss, caregiving, and associated health and welfare challenges.” They have a “fresh perspective and commitment to infusing wonder, joy and hope into these conversations while also tackling the tough stuff.”

• Family Medical Leave Act in the USA (additional info here): There are eligibility requirements and different policies depending on where you live, but it’s important to know about potential options for leave from your employer if you’re a caretaker. I recently did a wellness workshop on burnout and a participant shared that after the session she realized she was fried and needed to get more support as she cared for her father. She was able to use the policy to go part-time in her work, and is markedly less stressed in managing competing demands and able to be more present with her father. Here are 5 things employers get wrong about caregivers at work. The more we share our struggles, ask for resources and policies, and normalize the human experience, the more likely we can ignite greater change.

Books:

• A Beginner's Guide to the End: Practical Advice for Living Life and Facing Death by BJ Miller and Shoshanna Berger. This is a must read for all humans, whether you have a chronic illness, are near end of life, or a regular ol’ 40 year old. It’s a phenomenal resource for ALL parts of preparing for the inevitable end – literally all of the things, from getting affairs in order to what to expect of the mind and the body in its final stages of life.

• Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End by Atul Gawande. Another exceptional read (and dovetails nicely with the book mentioned above by Dr Sunita Puri). My dearest friend has used this as a framework for navigating proactive conversations with her family members to know what everyone’s wishes are in (the hopefully very distant) end.

Grief focused books:

• Healing After Loss: Daily Meditations For Working Through Grief by Martha Whitmore Hickman. This is my absolute favorite for myself and that I’ve purchased it for others. If you cringed at the meditation part, it’s not actually meditation. Each calendar page has a quote and a short note that usually strikes a comforting/validating chord.  

• Full disclaimer- I only partially read these two books that were recommended to me. I tried to read them before my mom died and again in the very initial month or so after, and my grief brain fog didn’t allow much to sink in. It's OK That You're Not OK: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn't Understand by Megan Devine and also Anxiety: The Missing Stage of Grief: A Revolutionary Approach to Understanding and Healing the Impact of Loss by Claire Bidwell Smith (she also runs grief programs/workshops).

Wrap it up, Aileen!

Death is fascinating in that it’s one of the only things that every human has in common – one of the only guarantees – yet one of the most avoided topics.

I hope that if you’re reading this, you and your loved ones are far away from needing the information… and perhaps this can inspire you to have the hard but important conversations when the stakes aren’t as high.

I know that most likely, you’ve read this far for other reasons. My heart is with yours and I’ll share what Susan David says as a reminder of the duality of life: “Life's beauty is inseparable from its fragility.” 

Wishing you and yours many more days of beauty and comfort ahead.

Thank you, Mom, for continuing to help others breathe easier. Love you more than the world.

Feeling the jet lag together in Ireland, one of her favorite places in the world, in 2010

What do burnout and quiet quitting have to do with one another?

Uncover the impact of "quiet quitting" and stress in this insightful video. Hear powerful stories and expert advice that highlight the toll chronic stress takes on individuals, leading to disengagement and decreased productivity. Gain practical strategies to address stress and create a healthier, more fulfilling work experience.

Auto-generated text below. Please excuse any typos!

Hello we are live the burnout panel on quiet quitting. Welcome everybody to the burnout panel on quiet quitting and we are going to talk to you about this phenomenon that seems to be taking the world by storm right now um there are at least two definitions of quiet quitting one is the person who's saying I'm going to set some boundaries I'm not going on this like ride or die right kind of focus on my work anymore I'm going to say some boundaries around that but then there's another group of people who seem to be really disengaging and are much more likely burning out and moving into that place where they really aren't sure if they want to be in their workplace anymore that's the group we're going to address today sharing with you what we think is going on with that group of people and how you might help them so let's kick it off with our first speaker:

Hi my name is Audrey Holst I am the founder of Fortitude and Flow and the creator of the Perfectionist Archetypes and I help high achieving individuals and teams to rewire from toxic perfectionism into a culture of excellence and we can't talk about quiet quitting without talking about perfectionism these things are are linked together and in order to talk about that we have to talk about the body because we are bringing our bodies to work every single day there are two questions that the body is always scanning for. Am I safe? and do I belong? This combination of perfectionism within an individual and within an organization can create a bit of a survival situation where people are showing up to work their bodies are feeling like they are walking into a tiger's cage every single day. Their body is getting flooded with cortisol and everyday basis and that is bouncing off of co-workers and it's creating a really tough environment which is creating those people who are starting to disengage out of survival this is how they're going to survive this job so some things to talk about is unrealistic expectations that can be again within self and other this is something that is imperfectionism this feeling that it has to be a plus work or not at all it has to be above and beyond and these unspoken cultural rules. So you may not have it in your contract that you you know have to come in early and stay late that may be baked into the culture so that is again trying to follow these very specific rules and maybe they're written or unwritten and having this self-identification with your job as being who you are so not really having anything to identify yourself and your own body outside of your work. Therefore everything having a really really intense impact on you. So in order to deal with this new world we have to figure out okay where is this perfectionism where are these threads how can we come out of this survival situation and become more of our full selves in our work. We have to address those individual and organizational expectations and clarify them. So it's really important to get clear on these things and I think that Aileen is going to be do a really great job talking about the values and how clarifying those can really help us shift what's going on.

Thank you so much Audrey hello everyone my name is Aileen Axtmayer. I'm a career coach and corporate Wellness speaker. One on one I help my clients land work that they love and then I help employers retain that talent through providing customized corporate Wellness workshops all around Stress Management and helping employees restore their energy so they can thrive in their jobs and when I think about quiet quitting and burnout in the intersection here I think you know in my 15 plus years of working with people one-on-one seeing people leave jobs both quietly and loudly there's something really interesting that goes on so a lot of times people end up in their professional roles either in a happenstance way so they couldn't find a job right out of college and then they ended up just doing something temporary and then temporary lends itself to five ten years later or they land work that they love but then as they grow and change as in their personal lives and their professional lives their roles aren't reflecting those changes and values and interests in personality and in the skill sets that they want to want to use not just what they're good at sometimes they're good at something but you don't enjoy using it so I like to encourage people whether it be employers or the employees themselves to zoom out we don't really do these career Wellness checkups we have our annual physical exams we don't do this on the professional level so I I recommend that we do and the framework that I use to examine this is VIPs so what are your values your interests your personality and your skills and when you can create space as an employer or as an employee to really examine these parts of yourself and understand where you're at with each of them you can then use that framework to  understand where your work might not be in alignment anymore and what you can do to really shift and feel like your values interest personality and skills are aligned with the work that you're doing so that's a little bit of my thoughts on how we develop personally and change professionally and how we can Tinker with things to really feel more engaged in our work I think Dr Sharon is going to kick us off into another angle to explore this phenomena.

My name is Dr Sharon Grossman and I am affectionately known as the burnout doc I work with busy Executives and entrepreneurs who feel burned out because their work and their lives feel like too much and they want more time for themselves and their families so what I would like to really shine a light on with regards to quiet quitting is let's take it back for a moment to the brain and when we're doing this quiet quitting thing really we're letting our primitive brain do what it does which is it tries to run away from pain and move towards pleasure but I think it's also important to look at the consequences of just allowing that to happen and not being involved on purpose in that process it's when you are giving up on your goals that you actually are giving up on yourself and why that's important is because you lose Integrity with yourself and we do this and then we justify it because it's uncomfortable because we're tired because we're unsure what I really would like to encourage people to do instead is to use your prefrontal cortex to manage your mind so all of the thoughts that create the stress that make you want to run away that you deal with that stress instead you deal with the overwhelm and make your decisions on purpose because achievement is what will allow you to feel pleasure once you've put in the work so rather than running away from things let's find a way to engage and find out how we can manage the stress rather than just try to take that other route and you know sometimes we do that because we're burned out which is understandable and one of the reasons we might be feeling burned out is because there's just a lot of things that are stewing in our mind and we end up feeling resentful and my good friend Cait Donovan is going to now take that angle and talk to us about quiet quitting and resentment.

Hi everybody my name is Cait Donovan. I work with organizations to reduce burnouts they can keep top talent and I work with people one-on-one to reduce burnout so they can stop hating their lives and I love resentment it's my favorite emotion and resentment and quiet quitting have one major thing in common and that is a feeling or perception of unfairness people quiet quit because things are unfair and they're pulling out they're disengaging right they're not getting out of this what they're put putting into it if we look at Merriam-Webster resentment is defined as bitter indignation at being treated unfairly so resentment and quiet quitting have a common root and I think we have to remember that so if we find a lot of quiet quitting in a corporate setting creating conversations around resentment with support please don't do this if you don't know how call me I'll help with support we can create conversations that allow resentment to be explored in a positive and beneficial way resentments turn into boundaries and boundaries help protect us and one of my favorite people who talks about boundaries energetically is Dr Sandra and she's gonna take over now and talk about boundaries in unresolved chronic stress.

Hello everybody um I am Dr Sandra Lewis and I am a clinical psychologist and personal energy strategist working with women organizations to reconnect them those resources that help them make the journey from burnout to sustainable leadership and an impact that brings them a lot of joy and satisfaction and the threat that I've been hearing us pull on today is This Thread about this nervous system of ours and how when that nervous system gets overwrought it's kind of like we go into survival mode so quiet quitting this this engagement that we see in quiet quitting is really an example of flight or fight right so we we're in this place of just we have disconnected because this thing hurts it's been unfair it's not people aren't recognizing me my talents are being utilized appropriately and now I'm in this situation where I feel like I need to escape so we disengage that's the flight response the flight response might be more of the person who is more cynical right so we're in this space of unresolved stress but when we disengage it's like we move we remove ourselves from the interaction with the stressor itself the lack of recognition or those kinds of things but but we still have the energy going in our body and our bodies stuck in that mode so one of the things that we have to begin to do is to reset our nervous system our nervous system is stuck in that place where we can't get anything we can't even access our mental capacity to make a decision that might bring us to a better place so the first thing is to start with regenerating and rejuvenating a nervous system so that then we can start to hear our creativity again we can start to think about building we can get to our mental energy that energy that allows us to think to what can I do in this situation what are my options we can get back to our emotional energy that ability that we have to actually navigate through stress and see a reasonable solution and to connect with those resources as Cait just mentioned connect with the resources that you need and we've talked a lot about the individuals but we also need the managers to help us so Vanessa's going to talk about how leadership can take apart in ending quiet quitting.

Yes yes yes and thank you lovely the panelists my lovely peers yes for those insights so these three R's that I'm going to share with you right now is from helping my clients reduce their turnover shut down their staff's nonsense and retain their employees while they have been able to lead their teams of employees in their brick and mortar shops and restaurants so these three are to ensure that you no longer have to deal with quiet quitting on your team because yes let's say you are that individual that you know has that require quitting for yourself but you might be watching also as a leader of a team where you're thinking to yourself how do I ensure that this doesn't happen again so three R's one being rewards so you want to ensure that you are acknowledging the great work that your employees are doing this doesn't have to be a five thousand dollar gift card to Best Buy though we would all appreciate that yes right absolutely um but this could even just be a simple thank you some of you love telling your employees what's wrong and you justify it by saying preparing them for a hard not life but really you're preparing them to quietly quit so let's ensure that you are at the very least saying thank you acknowledge them for their great work and doing those rewards number two refreshments and I don't mean appetizers but hey free delicious food let's go uh by Refreshments I mean hosting regular team check-ins they can be monthly they can be quarterly but team meetings where you are realigning with your team about your company's culture mission and vision and last but certainly not least the third are Recreation so Recreation meaning have fun help your employees have fun with each other right with you and the team a holiday party goes a long way but even my client recently hosted an end of summer celebration at the wine bar she didn't think anyone would show up and turned out only one person missed the other 11 employees actually came off the clock they weren't paid for it they came to work essentially to the workspace voluntarily just to have fun and enjoy so whether you're leading an entire business or you're leading a team in a department or you're about to become a leader and you want to do it better than your current boss is remember rewards refreshments and Recreation quiet quitting is preventable now at this time we would love to open the floor to any questions that you may have for us I see we have a question here in the comments that we would love to address at the moment let me pull that question up.

So Olivier asked us is quiet quitting the response of employees to cope to their job rather than to apply the great resignation um so let's go we can go around the room here who already wants to begin and start and we can just go around the room it's quiet quitting the responsive employees coping to their job rather than the great resignation Cait I write about this a lot because I thinkthat quiet quitting is a coping mechanism for Burnout when it is used not as a choice but as a natural reaction so I think we have to separate choosing quiet quitting to protect yourself and quiet quitting because you're so burned out that you have no other choice and you're just trying to make it through your day and not get fired so quiet quitting can be a coping mechanism if you are burnt out and unable to get out of your job at the moment or you think you're unable to get out which is a whole separate conversation we need Carol you know we need to talk about mindset there but yes I think that it can be anyone else on the panel want to address what are your thoughts on quiet quitting versus a great resignation Dr Sandra.

I would say uh yeah it can be and it's probably a more short-term solution it's like what we need right now just to manage to get through right it's just we are here now this situation is really awful and I've determined that in order for me to manage it I have to take a step back I have to do less than I usually do I'm not going to go 187 percent I'm just going to go now 98 to 100 and I'm going to take some time but then we still need to take that next step so what will it look like when my my work life is the one I really want to have and how do I get there yes love it love it look at us look at us yes and we have Audrey yes yeah I think that uh this is one of those things where it's like the all or nothing mindset either you're in it three billion percent or you're completely disengaged in it and there's this this inability or just this lack of skill for a lot of people to figure out how to exist in that middle space like people were talking about engagement versus disengagement or making a choice versus feeling like there is no choice like what's your body's perception of a situation which your mind's perception of a situation so um this is like the conversation of teaching people and giving people the skills in order to exist in that middle ground where you're not completely disengaged and fleeing but you're also not you know it's or not throwing yourself at your work 24 hours a day and feeling like you were identified with that so that's really the conversation we're having right here is how do we get more people exposed to this kind of work that exists in that in between space great question

Love it love it and let's see we have another we actually have two questions from Casey here uh she shares I'm gonna be too long for the screen but here we go I'm reading in some Global surveys that empathy is the number one most value leadership attribute at this time number one what are some actionable concrete steps that leaders can take that show they are empathizing with their team members and then two how can I as a stress team member find my own agency in this crazy world so I can address the first question and feel free peers to also add in and then we can go into number two as well from the individual perspective so in terms of Casey for your first question what are some actionable concrete stuff that leaders can take to show that you're empathizing with your team members and I would say in terms of I'll go back to the rewards perspective and also with the recreation so when it comes to the rewards it's acknowledging helping your team member being the leader that acknowledges your team member for the great work that they did right because it's very easy to say oh my God like you know they give you a piece of paper they finish some you know planning something out and you're like okay they planned that thing but in their mind they're they're saying to themselves I spent weeks on that I spend months on that how could you not give me a thank you how could you not give me a reward how could you not acknowledge me in front of the team for the work that I did right and so it's appreciating and knowledge the work that they put into all the steps that they did to you know get them whatever that they wanted to do that is going to go along with that empathy and the second thing is also you know people have lives so being a leader that understands that your employees have lives right and your employee just as you are perhaps a stress team member for your own leader Your Own Boss right they may be in that same position for themselves too right so how can you ensure that you know we're gonna go into my lovely friends here about to go you know drop some knowledge on how you as a stress team member can find your own agency but just being aware that your employees are people too just as you are and ensuring that you are just showing up and acknowledging and wearing and being aware of the work that they're putting in it goes such long way second question how can I distressed team member find my own agency oh Aileen and then Dr Sandra.

I think uh what a lot of one of us a lot of what we've touched on and talked in depth about today is that stress response and so I think most people especially when you're in that constant state where you're potentially burnt out and you just feel like you're wanting a sense of control you said we have more control over how we feel in our minds and bodies than I think many of us know and recognize so my recommendation is what do you already know that helps you turn that stress response down what helps ground you nourish you get you into that prefrontal cortex like we talked about and out of this survival mode I guarantee you for most people they know these things and that they just aren't doing them as much as they want to or could and it doesn't have to be you know this two-week vacation every month or whatever it might be although that sounds lovely and maybe that is the thing for you but sometimes it's truly just creating some space to be versus to do taking some deep belly breaths so all these simple practices can really be incredibly impactful for helping Center yourself and then the more you do that the more you realize you do have control and you can integrate some of these practice and practices anywhere anytime and then feel like you can see the world from a clearer lens so that's part of my take on that and I just think also the empathizing leader right this kind of empathy it's if that's really about this whole skill that people call emotional intelligence or you know again what our brain does right mirror neurons we see someone having an experience and we're able our brain actually responds as though we're having that experience so when a leader can know and read their own bodies and what how they're responding when they're in the room with someone and they can also notice what's happening with people then they can begin to be more empathetic they can also be more empathetic by just practicing mindful listening making sure that they're saying they're understanding what the person actually said to them because sometimes people answer a question for us and we already have decided what we think the answer is and we're running with that we haven't really listened to them so we want to First slow ourselves down enough to really hear what people are saying and hear those little clues that I'm burned out I really need some support I really need help, Dr Sharon.

So just to continue what everybody has been saying I think it's really important if you are a leader of a team until you work on your own stress it's going to be really hard for you to show up in your best form and the other thing I think is interesting is you know we're talking about empathy and how that's the number one most valued leadership attribute um and I think it's also important to consider the difference between empathy and compassion because sometimes when we're empathetic by definition we're kind of feeling other people's emotions and sometimes if they're stressed and we start to feel stressed and then we're not able to show up and lead them so as an alternative think about how to be more compassionate around what they're feeling once you've taken care of your own stress and that means that you understand that they're having a hard time but you're not necessarily feeling all of their emotions and that allows you to show up as that leader from a place of strength as opposed to now we're all in it together in this mess of stress you know so um it's just a way of kind of stepping back and maybe zooming out and I think a lot of this comes from working on yourself first and foremost and Cait throw in just one last thing Dr Kristen Donnelly who's a multi-time tedx speaker and a fellow speaker friend of ours of the groups did a huge amount of research into empathy into the definitions and the core of the word and what she found out was that underneath the word empathy actually all we're looking for is understanding the word understanding is the only commonality between all of the definitions of empathy so if leaders need to be more empathetic than they need to look to understand wonderful wonderful so we are we have Megan says really nicely said uh we have Kristen who mentioned this is awesome yes we have Casey who says y'all Rock oh well it's been our pleasure definitely to be here on the burnout panel we'll be here every month live on LinkedIn with different topics and I'm gonna pass it off here to Audrey to close us out.

It's it's so great to have to be able to hear everybody in like such a short little segment and basically you can take this as it's we're like a flight of tasters where you got to have a little tiny Taste of everybody's perspective and it was delicious for me just even being on this panel being having like these little tastes and there you can see where the commonalities and where the specific areas of expertise that everybody has and what a huge value that could bring to have all of these voices um be heard by your organization like imagine that your organization gets all of our voices and all of this information in like in a package together that's amazing like that's really an amazing thing like I'm excited just talking about it so we're gonna drop a link in the chat where you can check it out it is just a way to contact us gives your information your name organization need or if you are thinking of an organization you're like oh my gosh they need like they need this work they need this work let us know so we're gonna be doing this like I said every single month and when we can collect information that's also gonna help us like if you've got a topic that you want to hear us talk on to get a little taster whether you want to bring us on ask us about it we'd be happy to talk about it and that was the burnout panel on quiet quitting till next month foreign.

Simple Solutions To Burnout

From establishing healthy boundaries and practicing self-care to seeking support and reevaluating priorities, we provide practical strategies to help you regain balance and find fulfillment.

Auto generated transcript from the panel is below. Please excuse any typos!

Welcome welcome everyone to the burnout panel on Simple Solutions today we're talking about is burnout really simple you're chatting before we went live and a lot of us are thinking this isn't rocket science but sometimes it really does feel that way when you're feeling burnt out or you're just honestly in a life where you're not really zooming out and looking at the forest from the trees So today we're going to talk about acknowledge and insights and actionable practical tips for solving preventing recovering from burnout from each of our experts today.

So very serendipitously I have my own little burnout mitigation happening right now I'm joining super quickly my name is Aileen and I got the call school is closing early for snow so life happens but this is what we're talking about life happens instead of pushing against it and honestly that strategy in and of itself is a way to reduce burnout or to reduce stress that we feel in our bodies right paying times resistance equal suffering so let's reduce our suffering so we took today before I scoot in the snow storm is for Burnout Simple Solutions more executive functioning part of our brains comes back online we can actually start to see what's contributing to our stress what is the biggest source of struggle for us and what can we do and Implement in our lives to take action to start to create more ease so I will pass it on to Cait.

Hey everybody this is real life around here so when snow storms happen and children have to get picked up you know we roll with the punches my go-to solution for Burnout might sound a little bit counterintuitive but I really want you to spend some time tapping into what I call the anger group of emotions anger irritation annoyance and my favorite resentment I want you to tune into resentment because I think that I can be bold enough to say that the past couple of years have left a few people that may be watching a little angry you know we've had a lot of change there's been a lot going on just this past week there was a lot of layoffs from a lot of big tech companies I want you to take note of where the most repetitive resentments are the most common ones in your life and then ask yourself a couple of key questions number one does this thing that I'm resentful about even need to be done sometimes you'll find that you're resentful about doing something that if you dropped wouldn't change anything this is beautiful because the next question is if I have to do it is there someone else that could do it now we're talking about delegation the question after that is is there a way to upgrade the tool do you need better software or do you need different help or do you need a new sharpened knife whatever happens to be that you're using that's causing frustration can you upgrade your tool to make it easier and then the last question is is there an unspoken assumption here and unspoken agreement between myself yes for yourself communication communicating with yourself and communicating with others. Now something happens when life happens for example when maybe you're not able to get done on that project that you told your boss or you told yourself or you told your team that you're going to be able to do and so it's very easy to then say okay who will be impacted all these people were counting on me oh my gosh I can't let them down instead Your solution is to think to yourself how do you communicate how are you going to communicate to yourself and to others that hey life did happen and now it is time for me to do X or do I do see for example and now I'm going to pass it off to Audrey thanks so much I will have to you know we were so excited to get into these tips that none of us introduced ourselves which I think is just really it actually it kind of goes to our passionate about this work like we were talking about strategies before you even got on this call and we were just like let's get it you know we were just ready to dive in so we'll have to do a little circle back on you know intros so without the intro just say really quickly that I the folks that I work with are perfectionist that's my my area of expertise is working with folks who are perfectionists have basically self-identified as having perfectionist Tendencies and one of the things that leads this particular population down the path of burnout is not having an adjustable speed and what I mean by that is that they are either in park or they're going 60 miles an hour and that can look at the speed of which they move physically it's often the way that they describe that their minds are running a million miles an hour and they've got so many things going on and if they have a moment just to sit their brain kicks in super super fast so one of the things that I start to bring to folks is teaching them the concept of having an adjustable speed just like a car you don't just have park or 16 miles an hour you actually transition you can try before you can even make the transition you have to start to be aware that there are different speeds so one of the exercises that he bring people through is having them starting to look around the room and to just notice the speed at which they observe their surroundings because often people who are in 60 miles an hour are scanning the room so fast that they're not actually seeing anything and when you're in that state where you're literally not even seeing the things in the room you're also not seeing anything in your brain either you're not going to see Solutions you're not going to be able to hear communication clearly you're not going to be able to grasp creativity the way that you want to so being able to recognize the speed at which your system is processing information is looking is is looking or not looking is scanning but not actually paying attention but not paying attention is the first step in figuring out oh wow okay I I feel like I'm in this this fast speed is there some adjustability here so just starting to understand that we have different speeds at which we operate and that we do have the ability to shift up and down in between them and it's very common that we only use two speeds Park which is an earliest speed but you know what I'm saying and 60 miles an hour which is going running right by and not even actually seeing any of the scenery so I hope that you know keeping that in mind I'm imagining that Doctor Sandra Lewis is going to have some even more juicy tips.

I am going to have some tips but I'm going to give Dr Sharon her chance to go so that we can so she can share something on how to decode your burnout and then we're going to talk about your bodies thank you so much onthat but something came up today. Because one of the reasons that I find that a lot of people burn out is because of that negative chatter in their mind and you know Audrey just talked to us about perfectionism that's an example of something where if you set those standards for yourself and you don't actually have the kind of results that you want you might end up beating yourself up if I have a client who is very much in this place of wanting things to be amazing you know great intention but then tends to beat himself up when things don't turn out the way that he would like and he said something and I thought this is such a great mindset shift that I have to share it and this is what he said it's redundant to beat myself up because I already felt the pain and I was like that is so good right so think about that when you really care about doing something well and it doesn't work out the way that you would like that's painful right it's like here I am showing up putting an effort putting in time and then we don't have control over everything that happened so it's not necessarily your fault but it didn't work out sometimes it's because we have external circumstances that are beyond our control sometimes it's because we're not quite at the level that we need to be in terms of our skills and sometimes when something doesn't turn out we can learn from that experience and that allows us to do better the next time around so this idea of getting away from beating yourself up is a great way to avoid adding to the stress that you already have in your life and with that I would love to now pass it finally to the lovely Doctor Sandra.

Thank you so much I'm going to tell everyone disconnected from everything including their own bodies so when I'm talking to them and they're describing a work situation or some challenge that causing them to feel even more exhausted and anxious I'm noticing that they're either breathing all the way up here in their chest are there holding their breath but they don't know they're doing it so I call them when we get really exhausted and really anxious at the same time what does that mean now we're just feeling even worse we can't focus we can't be present our whole frontal load right as Aileen mentioned has gone offline so the first thing is to get back in your body just get in your body think of your body here's what I call your body your closest partner all of those signals you're feeling from your body will help you get through the burnout you just got to be able to listen so come back into your body by a simple little task simple thing you can just do is notice where are your feet just notice your feet notice your butt right notice what your eyes are looking at and then notice something that you can see right if you're a visual person if you need to close your eyes notice what you smell notice what you can touch feel your hands on your body even you can squeeze yourself you can massage yourself a little bit to get back on your body and then simply ask from your heart what do I need right now breathe as Aileen mentioned and hear what could you use in that moment to stay in your body it's your frontal load back online and then move to do the next thing but getting in your body is important and I recommend people do this like a few you know if you really burned out person just a few times a day a short little standcan help you reconnect toSo you have what you need to start moving out of the exhaustion and anxiety and in closing what I would like to do is share with you that you can hire us to come and talk to your people you can hire us to come and help your team be absolutely well and brilliant like you want them to be I'm going to pop a link and fill out this form to let us know who you are and what you need and we will reply to you and say hey this is how we can help you and with that I am going to turn this over to Vanessa who's going to lead us through our Q&A awesome people here yes how do you prevent being your worst enemy I'm sure always at some point has been a soulpreneur or maybe right now how do you prevent being your worst enemies who would like to smile I'm just enjoying the facial expressions and everybody this is a great question for us as a panel in general but you know also because we're all about preventing burnout what I would say is at least for my experience the thing that's been really helpful to me and what I encourage my clients to do is to be really intentional about yourself care and how that fits into your day so when you're running your own business and you're at the top of that pyramid you might have people helping you and you might be completely alone right even when you're solopreneur you might hire a virtual assistant and things of that nature but ultimately it's your business with you it's so easy to fall into the Trap of working around the clock to really do this in a sustainable way you have to think about what do I need to keep going without burning out so that I can continue to help my business grow and maybe that means that you plug in days and times that you exercise maybe there's meditation that you like to do that really centers you whatever it is for you figure out exactly when you're going to do that ahead of time and schedule that end so that it's not an afterthought and I'd like to pass it if anybody else has anything they want to add Cait.

B Y O B be your own bestie right if you don't want to be your worst enemy then you have to be first and foremost to yourself and to me being a friend to yourself starts with what I call in my work foundational self-care there's a massive joke with my podcasts being your own best friend means paying attention to your body's basic signals and responding to them in kind this is how you build self trust every time you need something and then you give your body what you need your body says oh cool we're going to be good over here like we're all set every time you ignore your body it says how else do I need to scream so bye and you don't have to do anything massive or drastic you have to drink when you're thirsty and rest when you're tired and pee when you got to pee like right now for example you know that the snow storm and I'm no pretty cool but yeah so love that bestie without add to that is what I usually say during my workshop is be selfish and owning the word selfish right that's ultimately what it's about it's really understanding what is that you need to best succeed so not even in a moment by moment for everyone else around you because it starts with you it starts with like there's a post I saw actually right before we got here You know she was looking at the snow and she just felt like cuddling on her couch and watching Netflix but then she told herself no I got to do these photos I got to put in all this work and my comment was and sometimes you just have to rest and watch Netflix yeah I had a thought about this is that the whole idea that sometimes it we get into this place where it feels like the business is running us instead of us running the business right so the business is actually literally directing how we feel is directing how we see ourselves more importantly so we now if the business isn't going exactly as we wanted then we say oh there's something wrong with us we start the internalize it because the business is not working so that means I'm broken right but in actuality you had a reason for creating this thing you fell in love with this for a reason so this relationship you have with your business it really is a relationship why did I fall in love with doing it with me and being with you oh okay so let's work this partnership out a little bit more let's think about how you can give me a little bit more how I can recognize what you're giving me and what I'm giving you right do some give and take thinking about but staying grounded in why you are running the business why is it important to you what is the gift you're giving to the world what is it that impact you want to have that thing will help you keep saying in love with that you're doing and you'll have to love yourself because you know you won't be able to do it if you don't love yourself oh man I'm living everybody's I was like I was like I need to hear everybody's answer to question I need to hear like the entire panels and I and I think that that is that is my input to this is that you need to surround yourself with people that are doing business in a way that you want to do business that are exhibiting Exquisite self-care that are using business models that are that that are working for them and that they are sticking to you mind and their clients and themselves that is a you know a mutually nourishing and supported model because I think that for many of us who step into these things.

Just as Dr Sandra was saying we do it because there is a calling in us and we may not be natural business people right I'll say for myself I'm not a natural I'm not a natural business person right this is not the thing and the business had to be right so my models for what a boss was was not all was not maybe necessarily who I need to be for myself so for me how I work is I need to see the examples to understand the concept I need to be with the examples to understand the concept so starting to surround myself with people that were displaying and modeling and being in the world the way that I want to be in the world is the way that I started to get my you know get my feels around how to do this myself I need to get I need to see the examples in order to understand what that looks like for myself.

I'd say keep showing up to these discussions and surround yourself with more people like us who maybe are you know modeling away that helps you do that for yourself I love that I love that so if anyone's watching whether you're watching a replay or watching the slide continue to type your questions in the comments because we are here every month and so we'll take your questions and answer them on the next panel happening in February okay such a great such a great event yesterday.

Righty well in that case you don't control other people's feelings and you have to learn how to disappoint people sometimes absolutely and the point about you know listening life happens right and understanding how to deal with life and what you're hearing whether you are maybe you work for a company or you know a company or you know someone who can benefit from the burnout panel and hearing what is we have to say to you.